{Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

[Icemage]

Re: {Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

Actually, the opposite is true, Aeni. Before level 51 (elemental staves), you have to overload on MND and INT to land enfeebles because you have no other practical ways to improve your magical accuracy with those spells.

Once you get staves, accuracy goes way up, and you really just need to be within "reasonable" range of the monster's stats to land spells effectively, at which point your Enfeebling skill becomes your primary weapon for increasing your effectiveness. You can't neglect MND, but it actually becomes de-emphasized after you get to 51, rather than the opposite, and at the same time as you rise in level, the +MND gears you begin to get access to start to get more and more potent, making it even easier to reach that "reasonable" level.

By and large, the monsters do have a tendency to be a level or two higher as you creep up towards 75, but you know how we tend to gain less than 1 stat point per level in any given stat? Monsters seem to be the same way; a few have higher than average MND, but even 3 levels difference amounts to maybe 2 extra points of MND.

And of course, at level 75, hardly anything you XP on will be higher than Very Tough, so your need for both Enfeebling and MND plummet at that point. They're still useful and you shouldn't totally neglect them, of course, but strictly speaking, you no longer need to obsess with either stat the same way you need to at lower levels unless facing HNMs who are way above your level (Fafnir is level 90, for instance).

I'm functional at level 74 with around +20 MND, and I'm not even trying hard - if I wanted to I could bump it quite easily to +35 or better, but that would greatly increase my inventory and macro clutter without much visible impact.

It's true that Slow and Paralyze do get a little bit stronger with more MND, but to me, successfully landing Slow for sure is better than failing more often, but with slightly (and I do mean slightly) more Slow effect with higher MND. Paralyze is even more flaky; the effect is subtle at best, and well, it won't be Paralyzed if your spell doesn't land at all...


Icemage

[Aeni]

Re: {Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

All very good points Ice. I respect your knowledge and am grateful for your sharing of them. I just had one concern:

You can't neglect MND, but it actually becomes de-emphasized after you get to 51, rather than the opposite, and at the same time as you rise in level, the +MND gears you begin to get access to start to get more and more potent, making it even easier to reach that "reasonable" level.

Do you think this varies from race to race or with any other factors involved? For example, what kind of equipment access a player has (Some players who are playing RDM right now have already had mroe than one job to 75 already and probably have some kind of meriting) Having rare/ex items such as the Tamas (sp?) ring from CoP can also greatly affect a player's performance.

What I'm thinking is that the experience sometimes given may not take this into consideration, because we sometimes do get a different perspective and at times this misunderstanding can get in the way of figuring out what's the best way for someone to gear up when playing a job class.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: {Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

Well honestly, it depends. With my full Enfeebling setup, I think I have 304 Enfeebling.

Even against ITs like the Wyverns in Bhfalau, this is overkill. If I instead stack my errant gear for the MND, Paralyze doesn't last as long, but it procs at least double. It was at this point that the diminishing return is Time =/= Potency.

Mobs die fast, so having it paralyzed more often for a shorter period of time was better for the tanks/melee.

But then again, this is at 75. Before I got to 72, I was generally in pts that overhunted. Someplace like Lufaise Meadows or Ule Range have monsters that are still IT, and I can actually get resisted, and the fights are noticeably longer than in AU areas.

So it depends on the mob, but as Ice said, there is no one answer, and you'll need to see the diminishing returns yourself.

Also, we have gear that adds dynamics to our job, such as JSE Head and Body.

I first thought they were worthless, but on certain mobs (Specifically, the Ebony Puddings my BLM friend solos) I can see how Magic Acc would help me land consistent 600+ nukes instead of being Resisted left and right.

The Best answer for this is to have all the gear you can and swap accordingly.

I actively edit my Paralyze Macro for +Enfeebling or +MND based on where we move camp.

If we were to fight uber leet sauce mobs, I'd use JSE, if not, I'd use Errant/AF.

While this is the unfortunate truth, we can't just go one way because we are limited by gear. Maybe it's because after we got AF all the way up until the early 70s, we got used to not lugging an entire crate of gear around, but gear swapping or at least, carrying gear, becomes very pronounced at later levels.

Or, of course, you can store it in your Mog Locker, like I do, and just carry gear based on camp. No need to stay 59/60 in your backpack

[Aeni]

Re: {Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

Even against ITs like the Wyverns in Bhfalau, this is overkill. If I instead stack my errant gear for the MND, Paralyze doesn't last as long, but it procs at least double. It was at this point that the diminishing return is Time =/= Potency.

I noticed that too last night off of processionaires. I ate mushroom stew and kept on my VC (Because the WAR/NIN d/c'd 5min. into our camp and we pretty much exp'd with 5 until the BLM d/c'd and then we still exp'd with 4 and the higest member in pt was only 65) at no time did I bother putting on AF, because from the previous week when I exp'd on these same monsters, my resist rate was still the same. The only difference was when I had my AF the last time, I used Snoll Gelatos since I was the only magic DD in that party. So, anyway, I noticed that with a lot of +MND, my enfeebs were proccing hella lot, but didn't last as long. Well, that's a skewed perspective, because we had like 1 and then 2 members short of a full during the night, so of course the fights lasted a long time.

Still, my enfeebs landed 85~90% which is a good rate IMO off of mid-IT mobs (Tier 6 crawlers to boot) The proccing almost tripled and at one point, the "Monster is paralyzed" was spamming the log which made me feel good. LOL My LS mates have seen me pull this off time and time again and they're all amazed, saying that's better than Ninjutsu level enfeebling...

[WishMaster3K]

Re: {Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

Yup. NINs can affect their Enfeebs by swapping in INT (I believe) but they already do a lot of work with Enmity, TP/Haste, HP, Damage Reduction and Evasion Gear.

But thanks, Aeni. Good to see that you can do testing at the Mid Levels.

The 60s were so piss boring for me. .

[Icemage]

Re: {Red Mage} {Hmmm.} {/think} {Can I have it?}

If your stick rate without +Enfeebling gears is floating near 90%, then by all means stack MND instead. Unfortunately, you normally only see that sort of success rate against T to low VT enemies, which basically means you only get those results in the 70s, as the vast majority of parties in go after VT to IT enemies for the most part.


Icemage